Curse

Grammar · Aug 11, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

For the lone Ele in PVE, SF survived the burn duration nerf and the damage nerf, but the heavy MoR nerf killed it, absolutely killed it.

But then Anet goes and does this...
Rodgort's Invocation: decreased casting time to 2 seconds; decreased recharge time to 5 seconds.
...and SF is back for the lone PvE Ele!

The new combo:
RI --> SF --> LF/GG --> SF --> repeat (alternating between FF and GG with each repeat).

It actually out-damages the old combo with MoR by quite a bit, but is slightly more energy intensive (Fire Attunement and GoLE are musts).

Build example:
-Fire Attunement
-Glyph of Lesser Energy
-Rodgort's Invocation
-Searing Flames
-Liquid Flame
-Glowing Glaze
-optional (self-heal, defense, utility, more e-management, etc.)
-Rez

DarkGanni · Aug 11, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

It's a nice change imo I like to play ele once again

Zev · Aug 11, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Either that or use Arcane Echo and Dual Attunes to spam Rodgorts Invoc which only costs 7 thanks to Dual Attunes I believe. Add in the buffed Glyph of Ele power and Intensity and your rocking lvl19 fire Rodgorts making it hit for 148dmg and 4 seconds of fire. Yummy.

Grammar · Aug 11, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

UPDATE:

Searing Flames: Target foe and all nearby foes are struck with Searing Flames. Foes already on fire when this skill is cast are struck for 10...82 fire damage. Foes not already on fire begin Burning for 1...4 seconds.

Crap, forgot about that.

The placement of RI in the above-mentioned combo needs to be moved.
Probably swap RI and the first SF:
SF --> RI --> SF --> LF/GG --> repeat.

Hmmm.....needs more testing.

Stormlord Alex · Aug 11, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

[
SF --> RI --> SF --> LF/GG --> repeat.

No, no - RI --> SF etc. is the correct way to do it.
Starting off with SF just wastes energy for a few seconds burning, to no real effect.
It's not very practical though - you can only get one SF packet out of each cast of RI, so you end up wasting a lot of energy overall.

Mark of Rodgort is still the way to go for SF, multiple SF eles is still the team you need.

Rodgort's Invocation is better suited to a Mind Blast bar.

Mouse at Large · Aug 11, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

In NM, with less AI scatter, you can run a mixed fire ele team. With MoR and some AoE (Firestorm etc.), you can keep some groups almost constantly burning and allow SF to hit for damage.

Arrows[PURE] · Aug 12, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

RI has no place on an SF bar imo. Why u would run it over
oR is beyond me. Like StormLord alex said:

"Rodgort's Invocation is better suited to a Mind Blast bar"

Dr Strangelove · Aug 12, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

I agree with the good, um, stormlord.

Run RI if you want to use your elite for something else, searing flames if you don't care.

It's also worth noting that multiple RI's don't stack well because of the burning, while multiple SF do. So, the more eles you have, the more you should consider SF, and vice versa.

Grammar · Aug 12, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

No, no - RI --> SF etc. is the correct way to do it.
Starting off with SF just wastes energy for a few seconds burning, to no real effect.
It's not very practical though - you can only get one SF packet out of each cast of RI, so you end up wasting a lot of energy overall.

Mark of Rodgort is still the way to go for SF, multiple SF eles is still the team you need.

Rodgort's Invocation is better suited to a Mind Blast bar.

You're right that cating SF before RI is a waste; all you get is a couple seconds of burning. RI --> SF needs to be the order.

But I disagree that MoR is the way to go, unless you have more than one SF/MoR Ele in the party. The 15 second recharge just ruins it for the single Ele (which is what this thread is about).

RI with a 5 second recharge is better than MoR with a 15 second recharge for the single SF Ele. The more I test the two builds the more sure of this I am.
Typical string looks like this:
RI* --> SF* --> LF* --> SF --> GG --> SF* --> RI* --> SF* --> wait a couple seconds for RI to recharge and repeat.
The "*" means an AoE hit, assuming LF hits AoE. LF is actually optional, and can be removed for another utility/defense/e-management/etc skill if you want.
Despite how long that combo looks, it actually quite flexible and works well in practice (read: target switching when things die), because it's actually 3 completely independent mini-combos strung together: the first 3 spells (or 2 if you remove LF), the next 3 spells, and the last 2 spells). The above combo can be used on as many as 3 and as few as 1 group of foes.

The problem with MoR is that if you use it, and then the group you use it on dies relatively quickly, now you're without it for ~10 seconds or so.
With RI, you never have to wait long to recast RI --> SF, and there's the perfect amount downtime to fit SF --> GG --> SF inbetween.

EDIT:
To clarify my point, let's look at the MoR combo and compare...

SF --> MoR --> SF* --> LF* --> SF* --> GG --> SF*

The problem with that combo is that it's inflexible as hell. That never mattered when MoR's recharge was 5 seconds, because if something died too early you could just start the combo again because MoR would be ready to go.
But now with the 15 second recharge, it's almost NEVER ready to go when you need it, and you're pretty much stuck with just SF --> GG --> SF.
It's just too damn fragile with that huge recharge.

TGgold · Aug 12, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Is it just me, or is Mark of Rodgort only fragile in the sense that you have to Fizzle one SF to do only burning if you kill the first mob too quickly?

Either way, It looks like both are still pretty viable now, which is nice. Maybe I'll play around with using RI.

Stormlord Alex · Aug 12, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

SF --> MoR --> SF* --> LF* --> SF* --> GG --> SF*

Not quite.

MoR --> wand --> Spam SF ad nauseum, with the occaisional GG.
No need for LF.

... and the point you're trying to discuss is moot - if you're the only ele, you shouldn't be using SF.

Triple heats or Mind Blast are much more flexible, less fragile, bars on a lone ele.

Grammar · Aug 12, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

MoR --> wand --> Spam SF ad nauseum, with the occaisional GG.

.....then that group dies, you switch targets, and...uh...hmmm, now what? MoR is still recharging...
That's what I mean when I say inflexible . It looks good on paper, but unless every single foe you attack takes 15 seconds or more to die, it just doesn't work that well in practice.
And on a side not, a wand hit after MoR only starts the burning on one target in the group, hence the common placement of MoR after the first SF in order to get the whole group burning so your second SF cast can hit everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

and the point you're trying to discuss is moot - if you're the only ele, you shouldn't be using SF.

LOL, you may be right on this, but I haven't given up on SF yet.

I've run triple heat builds, but it's just not sustainable/perpetual enough for my taste. It reminds me of the days of Echo/Renewal nuking: great for relatively condensed periods of time and space, but lacking consistent dps. It's almost like spot duty; you pick your spot and unleash hell, then sit back and hope it was enough while you wait for everything to recharge. If stuff dies too early (happens frequently), you just wasted your big nuke combo and are stuck waiting and wanding. Or if the nuke combo wasn't enough (also happens frequently), you're stuck waiting and wanding....and possibly running. And what if the mob breaks up into 2 or 3 or 4 groups that aren't within range of each other? You can nuke 1 of the groups, but then what do you have left for the others?
The situation and circumstances need to be just right for the triple heat Ele to shine. Granted a skilled team can be very good at creating the specific situation and circumstances required, but things don't always go according to plan (and teams aren't always skilled either). These are exactly the kinds of inflexibility problems that SF alleviates. Even if things don't go according to plan, you can just keep on dishing out the perpetual AoE dps regardless of the situation.
Mind Blast is nice, I'll give you that. I'm actually a huge of fan of Mind Blast builds with Heal Party, like the one's Ensign posted here a while back.
But right now I'm looking for raw AoE damage, and I'm not willing to bury SF yet.

kess · Aug 14, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

if only you are the only ele in your team, it's better to combo RI with mind blast. Mind blast is a cheap skill where you can build up your energy real fast, especially in pve where you need to move along quickly.

And with glyph of elemental power buff, I would combo is like

GOEP -> Fire attunement -> Searing heat -> RI -> mind blast -> LF -> Mindblast <-> RI

I even tried it at ab, target middle of NPC, minions, rit's spirits you will get huge amount of dmg. And will never run out of energy.

have a +30e 2nd set in pve or ra just in case you died.

kess · Aug 14, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

if only you are the only ele in your team, it's better to combo RI with mind blast. Mind blast is a cheap skill where you can build up your energy real fast, especially in pve where you need to move along quickly.

And with glyph of elemental power buff, I would combo is like

GOEP -> Fire attunement -> Searing heat -> RI -> mind blast -> LF -> Mindblast <-> RI

I even tried it at ab, target middle of NPC, minions, rit's spirits you will get huge amount of dmg. And will never run out of energy.

have a +30e 2nd set in pve or ra just in case you died.

kess · Aug 14, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

double post -)